ARIZONA STATE LEGISLATURE

Forty-fourth Legislature – First Regular Session

 

ENGLISH AS A SECOND LANGUAGE (ESL) AND

BILINGUAL EDUCATION STUDY COMMITTEE

 

Minutes of Meeting

Tuesday, December 7, 1999

Senate Appropriations Room 109 – 2:00 p.m.

 

 

Members Present                                                                 

 

Senator Aguirre

Senator Bennett

Senator Lopez

Senator Smith

Representative Gonzales

Representative Johnson

Representative Knaperek

Representative Laughter

Representative Schottel, Cochair

 

Member Absent

 

Senator Huppenthal, Cochair

 

(Tape 1, Side A)

 

Cochair Schottel called the meeting to order at 2:20 p.m. and attendance was noted.

 

PRESENTATIONS

 

Eufemia Amabisca, Assistant to the Vice Provost for Academic Affairs, Arizona State University West, stated she is a member of the Executive Board and immediate past president of the Arizona Association for Bilingual Education.  She presented slides regarding a survey of school districts' need for teachers in Bilingual Education (BLE) and English as a Second Language (ESL). (See Attachment A)

 

In response to Senator Aguirre, Ms. Amabisca explained that the zero dollars on the chart entitled "Stipends Paid by Surveyed School Districts" does not mean that the district did not return the survey, but rather that the district does not offer stipends.

 

Ms. Amabisca explained that the ALCAP (Census) Report indicates that 32% of second language learner teachers have not completed the endorsement part of their certification.

 

In response to Representative Schottel, Ms. Amabisca stated 296 teachers who have the  endorsement are needed at the present time.

 

Senator Lopez noted the survey reflects an immediate shortage of 296, however, that figure is low because all of the school districts did not reply to the survey.  He indicated that the attorney representing Flores in  Flores v. the State of Arizona estimates that 600-700 teachers more accurately reflects the true shortage.

 

Senator Smith questioned if the 600-700 teacher shortage, is the number needed above and beyond the teachers already hired, or would that number represent replacement of some teachers presently employed.  Senator Lopez stated the figure represents the total number of teachers who would be needed if the State were to provide instructions to those children in response to federal and State law.  He noted there might be a need to replace some of the present teachers.

 

Representative Gonzales thanked Ms. Amabisca for conducting the survey.  Ms. Amabisca noted that the survey indicates a great number of districts are not compensating BLE or ESL teachers who have made the effort to obtain additional training.

 
Ms. Amabisca stated stipends are considered a competitive edge because districts steal teachers from each other because some districts do not pay stipends and some pay small stipends, which are used as a competitive way to recruit teachers. She indicated many other states also come to Arizona to recruit teachers.

 

Ms. Catherine Mayorga, Program Director, English Acquisition Services, Arizona Department of Education distributed and reviewed a memo regarding the Appropriations for Bilingual Education and English as a Second Language Programs. (See Attachment B)

 

Senator Smith questioned if the stipends are in addition to the $162 per student and how the stipend is being used.  Ms. Mayorga explained the money is used differently by different districts and is distributed by local control.

 

In response to Senator Bennett, Ms. Mayorga affirmed that the Group B dollars are added to the overall pot of money and there is really no guarantee that any of the dollars are necessarily used for additional LEP services.

 

In response to Representative Schottel, Ms. Mayorga said foreign language is not required for graduation, however, in the elementary grades, foreign language is mandated by State statute.  Representative Schottel asked if the foreign language teachers receive stipends.  Ms. Mayorga stated she did not believe so.

 

Senator Lopez stated there is nothing to prohibit a school district from providing a stipend to foreign language teachers and he was sure the stipend would be used if the district was unable to hire the language instruction teachers they needed.  He added stipends are not required for BLE teachers but districts are under a severe handicap because they have to provide these services and in order to attract teachers they have found they have to pay stipends.  He stated some districts are better situated to pay stipends than others and that is one of the reasons in earlier pieces of legislation the recommendation was made that a sufficient Group B weight be paid so that every district with LEP students is able to provide stipends.

 

Representative Schottel stated he agreed with Senator Lopez because it is not just the ESL and BLE areas, but also math and science, where there are shortages.  He noted that when teachers take that extra step to improve their education or to specialize in language, math, or science, then perhaps they should all receive a little extra money.  Senator Lopez agreed.

 

In response to Senator Bennett, Ms. Mayorga said there are a number of grants that are advertised by the United States Department of Education and they are now going through the process of making them public notice for application. She stated she believed there were four grants available at the present time.

 

(Tape 1, Side B)

 

In response to Senator Bennett, Ms. Mayorga stated she did not know how many districts are benefiting from the $9.8 million, as she had not reviewed the survey.   Senator Bennett stated he is trying to get an idea of the amount of extra dollars that are coming in from the federal government for LEP services.  Ms. Mayorga stated she provided a breakdown of the federal Title VII funds by district at the last meeting.

 

In response to Senator Lopez, Ms. Mayorga confirmed that federal funds can only be used to supplement not supplant ESL and BLE programs.

 

Daniel N. Wegener, Bilingual Federal Programs Director, representing the Avondale Elementary School District, stated the question of replacing or supplanting teachers is a valid one and pointed out that many districts make the effort to provide additional training to the teachers they already have and it is a costly enterprise.  In his district the board has a policy that you cannot become a continuing teacher unless you obtain an ESL endorsement, but the district provides no funding for the teachers to obtain the endorsement. He emphasized that part of the teacher shortage the State faces is centered around that reality.

 

Mr. Wegener stated the per pupil dollar amounts are not accurate by definition.  He explained the weighted funding cannot be accessed unless the student is in an approved program with a qualified teacher.  There are thousands of LEP students who are being taught by non-qualified teachers and therefore are not included in the counts.  He concluded that the actual money going to the total number of LEP students in the district when factored down is even less than the $162.  In other words, the district does not get compensated for services provided to students unless the student is with an endorsed teacher and all the rules are met.

 

Mr. Wegener stated that even if the $162 per student went toward stipends it would not be enough money because there are so many teachers with endorsements in his district, and secondly, there are a number of expenses hidden from the view of the Legislature that go along with these programs.  He noted that H.B. 2387 mandates notification to parents, which requires additional publication; additional data base management; additional staff time; resources must be created, translated and duplicated; teachers have to have in-servicing on site; and administrators need to be hired to oversee the programs, among other requirements.   He noted there is no financial incentive in identifying and testing students because a district will actually save money by not having a BLE or LEP program.  Senator Bennett expressed agreement.

 

Senator Bennett stated he understood the $9.8 million in federal money goes to about 40 districts.  Representative Schottel stated the reason only 40 districts receive this federal money is because other districts do not apply for the money because it is too expensive to run the programs, and only those districts that apply receive the money.

 

Mr. Wegener responded the State has a formula-based funding system and it is not competitive, however, the federal dollars are distributed on a competitive grant basis and there is no guarantee if a district has a program that they will receive the funding.  He explained that, on the contrary, the more functional a program is, the less likely it will receive federal funds. The Title VII funds rarely go to improving programs that are already achieving what they are supposed to be doing.

 

Representative Schottel stated perhaps that the normal flow of government business is to reward failure and penalize success.  Mr. Wegener stated he was not sure the Title VII grants are always such a reward, they bring additional scrutiny, oversight, burden of planning, and most importantly the district has to sustain a program after the grant ends. 

 

Representative Gonzales commented that in reality school districts that apply for the federal funding do it because they have a need and they do not do it because they want to hire more administrators.

 

Dr. John Petrovic, Research Professional, Arizona State University Center for Bilingual Education and Research, stated that Utah, Colorado and Texas are spending ten times the dollar amount the State of Arizona is spending on bilingual education.  Texas spends 32% more than their base average per pupil expenditure for bilingual students; Colorado and Utah spend 34% more.

 

Mr. Petrovic distributed and explained a study that he asked Dr. Jeff McQuillan to conduct in response to a publication from Jorge Amselle. (See Attachment C)

 

Representative Knaperek asked Dr. Petrovic to reiterate his comments regarding students at the poverty level.  Dr. Petrovic stated there is a very strong correlation between academic achievement and poverty.  Children who live in poverty tend to score lower, not because there is anything innate in poor children that causes them to score lower.  He added that because of their environment there is a significant correlation between poverty and student achievement in schools.

 

Dr. Petrovic stated the research indicates a fairly definitive hierarchy of effectiveness  among the different programs.  He indicated the most effective programs are late exit bilingual education that last 5 or 6 years and two-way programs involving English speakers and language minority children.

 

Representative Schottel stated the Committee needs to consider what is in the best interest of the student because for too long consideration has been given to the best interest of the system.

 

Dr. Petrovic stated the bilingual programs that last longer and use more primary language instruction over a period of years do significantly better that English emersion.

 

Wayne Holm, Education Specialist, representing the Navajo Nation, stated he spent the last three decades in bilingual education on the Navajo Reservation.  He indicated the programs were long-term bilingual programs and they saw a greater difference in the long-term bilingual programs compared to the children in the English only programs. 

 

(Tape 2, Side A)

 

Mr. Holm stated the bilingual endorsement allows a teacher to either teach ESL or the native language and is a more powerful endorsement.

 

Mr. Holm stated one of the big problems is that many of the students who speak only English do not necessarily speak English well and their English is not good enough for reading comprehension, word problems, etc. 

 

In response to Representative Gonzales, Mr. Holm addressed the disparity between those students on the Navajo Nation who stayed in bilingual education and those who were in English only programs.  Mr. Holm said there was a study conducted in the 1980’s at a school called Rock Point where they have a long-term bilingual program and it indicated a slight difference at the second grade with comparable students in English only, however, there were several grade differences by the sixth grade.  Another study was conducted with high school kids and a rural school scored higher in math and science than any other school on the reservation.  He noted a third study was conducted at the Ft. Defiance Emersion Program where the children learn in Navajo and English and the results showed the children in the emersion program were doing better than the children being taught in English.

 

In response to Representative Laughter, Mr. Holm explained a lot of the emphasis in using Navajo language in academic instruction goes with community control of schools.  Representative Laughter stated that the Navajo community took it upon themselves to implement a program that was more successful versus a State program.

 

Analizabeth Doan, Bilingual Education Director, Nogales Public Schools, stated she represents her school district, Santa Cruz County, and also school districts along the United States/Mexico border.  She stated all of the issues spoken to today have affected her district.

 

Ms. Doan referenced the memorandum from ADE and stated that a student funded under the provisions must first be tested and assessed within 30 days of being enrolled in the district.  Additional funding is required for the testing. Ms. Doan stated that to qualify for Group B monies a teacher must have a language endorsement and she noted there are probably another 1,000 students in Nogales who do not qualify for Group B monies because they are not with language endorsed teachers.  She explained the shortage is severe; they have 16 classrooms presently being covered by people who do not even have a bachelor's degree and have 25 classrooms with people with an emergency teaching certificate.  She noted that 50% of their teachers have no language endorsement even though 80% of their students are LEP.

 

Ms. Doan stated they do well by their students and their high school drop out rate was 5% when the State average was 12%.  Every year they lose about 20% of their teachers because they are highly competitive, even though they do pay a stipend.

 

Ms. Doan stated the experts on the side of bilingual education, Dr. Stephen Crashion, Dr. Wayne Thomas and Dr. Virginia Collier, have all been recognized as experts by the American Educational Research Association.  She added that Christine Rosell and Jorge Amselle have never been recognized by the Association, even though they may call themselves experts.

 

Representative Schottel inquired of the number of children who come across the border for an education.  Ms. Doan stated they conduct a very thorough screening and they have some students who do come across and pay tuition, which is $382 month.  They investigated over 200 children this year and only two did not have the proper documentation.  Students through 8th grade do not pay tuition, only grades 9-12.

 

(Tape 2, Side B)

 

Maria Figuero, Principal, Tolson Elementary School, Tucson Unified School District, stated in her district they have identified 11,000 LEP students and receive State funds for only 7,600.  At the beginning of the school year her school hired seven new teachers. She expounded on the difficulties in hiring bilingual and ESL teachers.

 

In response to Representative Schottel, Ms. Figueroa stated her school's students are in ESL programs for all five years.  Representative Schottel stated he did not think there is anything as a legislator he can do to force people to be certified as bilingual teachers but perhaps the Legislature should look at cutting the number of years a student can be in a bilingual or ESL program if there is a shortage of teachers and asked if that was an alternative.  Ms. Doan replied that research shows that it takes 5-7 years for a child to obtain primary language development.

 

Senator Aguirre stated as legislators we can encourage universities to institute a program for certification as part of graduation, instead of having them go back and take extra hours.  She noted she went back and got her own certification as a teacher.  Representative Schottel stated he did not believe it would require legislation.

 

Representative Laughter stated there are two issues that need to be addressed, money and the possibility of endorsement being more readily available.

 

Senator Bennett excused himself from the Committee meeting to attend his grandmother's 90th birthday party in Prescott, AZ.

 

Angela Randolph, ESL/Title VII for the Alhambra School District, said to compare stipends for foreign language to stipends for ESL and BLE is like comparing apples and oranges because for foreign language it is more of an enrichment whereas for LEP students it provides equal access to the curriculum.

 

Ms. Randolph reiterated the importance of funding LEP students, adding the federal government provides the seed money, but it is up to the State of Arizona to fully fund the LEP programs.

 

Brian Lockery, House Education Research Analyst, called the Committee's attention to H.B. 2387 from 1999. (See Attachment D)  He noted that section 4 of H.B. 2387 requires the Committee to include recommendations in their report.  He distributed a copy of one set of recommendations. (See Attachment E)

 

Senator Smith asked if ADE had reviewed the recommendations.  Mr. Lockery stated he understood ADE also just received the recommendations.  He stated they are currently looking at the proposed recommendations and have not yet reported back.

 

Senator Smith stated he felt it was inappropriate to vote on recommendations that the Committee members did not have a chance to look over. 

 

Senator Lopez stated the recommendations are his recommendations and he shared them with members of the Democratic Caucus.  He stated he would be in favor of holding another meeting of the Committee to discuss the recommendations.  He stated the Committee should move expeditiously, however, there may be some benefits in delaying the adoption of the recommendations until everyone on the Committee has had a chance to review them.

 

(Tape 3, Side A)

 

Representative Schottel stated he had just received word that this would be the last meeting of the Committee.  He said he would like to hear from ADE regarding the recommendations.  He added his position is to allow the remaining two speakers to present and spend whatever time is needed after that to review the recommendations.

 

Ginny Kalish, a bilingual teacher and 1999 Teacher of the Year, stated a foreign language teacher is specialized whereas a bilingual teacher teaches everything in two languages and so it is a different comparison than a foreign language teacher.  She supported the concept of school districts having the choice of doing what works best for the children they serve.

 

Jesus Escarcega, Administrator for Federal and Special Projects with the Washington School District, informed the Committee  ten years ago they only had 700 students in the district requiring ESL and now that number is 4,000.  They are hurting for staff, materials, and funding. 

 

Representative Knaperek stated she was extremely uncomfortable with voting on the recommendations at this meeting after not having time to review them.  She stated she feels like a juror who has not been given all the information and has to make a decision. She stated she has been put in the position of looking like she does not want to do anything, and that is not true. 

 

Referring to the recommendations, Representative Knaperek stated, as an example, she did not know what the consequences would be regarding recommendation #1 because there was no one from the universities at the meeting to provide that information.  She stated another recommendation is to encourage the universities to promote endorsement, which can be done now without legislation.  She stated the ALCAP Report is a self-reporting report and is not accurate and should not be relied upon as a cost study.

 

Representative Knaperek stated she is a strong advocate of special education and wondered why these issues could not be rolled into that Committee.  She emphasized she needs a lot more information and felt she had been blind-sided today.  She promised to continue to work on the recommendations and the teacher shortage should be looked at with a holistic point of view.

 

Representative Laughter stated that with all due respect for Senator Knaperek's frustration, she feels the members of the Committee are fully aware of both sides of the issue.  She stated the Committee was presented both sides of the issues.

 

Representative Knaperek made the motion that the Committee table the recommendations.

 

Senator Lopez made a substitute motion that the Committee adopt the recommendations.

 

Senator Lopez stated at the last meeting members were told there would only be one more meeting and if there were going to be recommendations, they should be brought to this meeting because this was going to be the last meeting.  He stated unless he can be assured that there will be another meeting, he would go forward with the motion to adopt the recommendations.

 

Senator Aguirre noted the last meeting on November 17, 1999, was not completed and it was her understanding that the recommendations were supposed to come forth then, but that is why we had to have this meeting.  She expressed concern in the continued delay and not fulfilling the charge of the Committee.

 

Senator Smith stated he thought the motion to table the recommendations took precedence over the substitute motion.  Representative Schottel stated he would need an opinion from the Rules Attorney.

 

Representative Knaperek stated it was her understanding that once a motion to table is made it means you have to meet again.

 

Senator Lopez stated they would wait on the Rules Attorney's opinion. 

 

Senator Aguirre stated a motion to table would have to be voted on.  Senator Lopez informed the Committee that the motion to table after another motion certainly takes precedence, but if a motion to table is made first and a substitute motion is offered, there is no way it can take precedence over anything.

 

Senator Smith stated if the recommendations had been offered at the beginning of the meeting, the speakers could have been limited and there would have been time to discuss the recommendations.

 

Representative Gonzales stated the Committee members knew the charge of this Committee when the Committee started and she asked the Majority where their recommendations were.  She indicated there was time now to discuss the recommendations before they are put to a vote.

 

Senator Smith indicated he had another meeting he had to attend at 4:45 p.m.

 

(Tape 3, Side B)

 

Representative Schottel asked if the ADE is prepared to address the recommendations. Mr. Kaprosy stated ADE is not ready to address the recommendations at this time and explained why.

 

Representative Schottel called a recess of the Committee at 4:32 p.m. and the Committee reconvened at 4:40 p.m.

 

Representative Schottel requested that Senator Lopez and Representative Knaperek withdraw their motions and stated the Committee would hold another meeting, giving the members time to study the recommendations.

 

Senator Lopez withdrew his motion. 

 

Representative Knaperek withdrew her motion.

 


Representative Schottel adjourned the meeting  at 4:42 p.m.

 

 

Respectfully submitted,

 

 

 

Rosetta B. Cutty

Committee Secretary

 

 

 

 

 

 

(Tapes and attachments on file in the Secretary of the Senate’s Office.)

 

 

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English as a Second Language and

Bilingual Education Study Committee

Tuesday, December 7, 1999

Page 1

 

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